Ingram Spark vs KDP Print: The Great Debate (The Self Publishing Show, episode 278) - Free Educational videos for Students in K-12

Ingram Spark vs KDP Print: The Great Debate (The Self Publishing Show, episode 278) - By Self Publishing Formula

Transcript


00:0-1	Mhm . On this edition of the self publishing show
00:05	, honestly I was making more money Indie than I
00:07	was traditional . They asked if I was interested in
00:10	doing more books in that same series and they want
00:13	to know if I want to start a new series
00:14	and I said no I'm not giving you any more
00:16	I p because I understand how valuable it is now
00:19	. And there were no other options when I started
00:23	publishing is changing . No more gatekeepers . No more
00:27	barriers . No one standing between you and your readers
00:31	. Do you want to make a living from your
00:33	writing , join indie bestseller Mark Dawson . And first
00:36	time author James Blatch as they shine a light on
00:39	the secrets of self publishing success . This is the
00:42	self publishing show . There's never been a better time
00:45	to be a writer . Hello and welcome . It
00:48	is the self publishing show , the place to be
00:50	to learn everything you need to know about being a
00:52	indie author or just an author in this modern world
00:55	. I'm James blatch and I'm Mark Dawson . We
00:58	talk about all trad writing craft . In fact ,
01:01	today we're talking about cozy mystery which pertains to anybody
01:04	whether you've got to deal with penguin , random house
01:07	, soon to be penguin Schuster and random health Schuster
01:10	, whatever they're going to be , if that goes
01:12	through and if you're going to publish from your bedroom
01:16	, which we sort of think is the right way
01:18	to do , but not the right way for everyone
01:20	. That's for sure . No , not for everyone
01:23	, but it's certainly the right way for us .
01:25	So and probably , let's be honest , most people
01:28	listen to this podcast are at least interested in the
01:31	dark the dark side They are . And I have
01:36	published a hardback version of my book which just this
01:39	week fat this week , 10 minutes ago , which
01:41	just goes to show how far India has come in
01:44	recent years . I now have a paperback , an
01:46	e book and a hardback version of my book .
01:49	I was invited into the Beater uh amazon Kdp running
01:52	a Beater for hard back I think in europe ,
01:56	U k and the United States at the moment seems
01:58	to be looking at the pricing . Um , so
02:01	I got busy with that last night . I found
02:02	it pretty easy . The manuscript is the same if
02:06	you're sick , if you're the same trim size as
02:07	your paperback , the manuscript pdf is the same thing
02:11	to be careful of is your ice bien number .
02:13	You might need to update if it's a different one
02:15	for , for hardback . If you've got your own
02:17	spN uh the cover is different , so it's slightly
02:20	bigger . The cover for the hardback version and you
02:23	will need access to the I mean , I Stewart
02:26	luckily handily gave me the Photoshop file so I had
02:29	all these layers and was able , but I ended
02:31	up manipulating some of the individual assets like the title
02:34	and plain and description um and doing a little bit
02:37	of trial and error with the proof side of it
02:39	, that was a little bit fiddly . So for
02:41	some people that will be a job for their for
02:44	their cover designer . And I think getting the dimensions
02:47	is quite difficult . I've written them down actually ,
02:51	the dimensions for hard back because if you google ,
02:53	you can't really find much information on this at the
02:55	moment because it's so new and it's in better .
02:57	You also signed a confidentiality agreement . Hopefully I'm not
03:00	breaching that , but for other people . Well ,
03:03	given the dimensions , I'm going to risk this .
03:05	Just given the , given the dimensions of um of
03:09	what your cover design is gonna need if you're in
03:11	the beta program and about to publish , I don't
03:13	think I'm going to I don't think Jeff's going to
03:15	phone me tomorrow . Um It's 14.854 inches by 10.417
03:22	inches , which is an inch and a bit bigger
03:26	actually than then the paperback size for the same trim
03:30	size . Who would cover of course , with covers
03:33	, it's not just expanding the canvas to that you
03:36	want to stretch things , you need to replace things
03:39	and then um now a couple of things , it's
03:43	just a little bit uh different the process and I
03:47	might be breaching confidentiality by going into any of those
03:50	details , but I know a lot of you have
03:51	been invited into the beta and are doing this as
03:54	well . So I'd be interested to hear your experiences
03:56	you can post below , which where if you're listening
03:59	to how you getting on with that . And of
04:00	course I have ordered a copy , it would be
04:04	nice to have . I mean , you've you've got
04:06	you've had this experience because again , will be a
04:07	new experience for me of having a hard back version
04:10	of my book and have there we go . There
04:12	we go . Because you sold you sold out to
04:15	the man , so you didn't do those that cover
04:17	work yourself . No , I didn't know , it's
04:20	not quite selling out , so it's like a different
04:22	deal than then , as I mentioned before . But
04:25	no , I I didn't do those covers . And
04:28	the second book was released um into stores about 10
04:33	days ago , I think it was has been quite
04:35	fun to go to supermarkets , mostly Tesco and ASDA
04:39	, um around here and and see how , you
04:41	know , see the book in the shelves and and
04:44	encouraging the game , pictures from readers showing books not
04:47	on the shelves , which is always nice . Um
04:49	you know , and my mom tried to get it
04:51	in Lowestoft and found a sticker that said temporarily have
04:55	story , you're the local hero . Hello stuff .
04:58	Yeah , so he was he was nice to nice
05:01	to see that , but it's yeah , it's lovely
05:02	to There is something about her that book I mentioned
05:05	before , and I'm reading Game of Thrones at the
05:06	moment and I've got the Folio Society editions which are
05:10	just gorgeous , with a really gorgeous . I they've
05:14	only published three of them , so I know that
05:15	the that they're going to work through them all ,
05:17	but I don't think the fourth book is out yet
05:19	, so I don't know if I want to read
05:20	it in um in paperback , I'm quite , I'm
05:23	quite enjoying the more operative edition . I don't think
05:27	I've kept in touch with this but has martin actually
05:29	written the last one yet ? Well the last two
05:32	years it hasn't still hasn't uh mm guarantee whatever he
05:38	does it will be a better job in the tv
05:40	series of the last two last series . Well probably
05:44	yes . I mean that's usually the case . I
05:46	didn't hate it as much as other people do but
05:48	it's Russia , it's only it was rushed that's for
05:51	sure . Well that's exciting . And there's there were
05:55	ticking off the things that you can't do as an
05:57	indie and I know there's still that you know going
06:00	walking through an airport and seeing your book for sale
06:02	there is quite difficult for India's it's not impossible .
06:05	You're doing it now louise ross you I see her
06:08	books in my local bookshops and there's others . Um
06:13	but all of those barriers are coming down and that's
06:15	that's happening quickly . I'll tell you one interesting thing
06:18	. So , I got an email . Very nice
06:19	email this week from the people who run the ,
06:22	there's a , the Avro Vulcan which an aircraft this
06:24	behind me . If you're watching on Youtube , a
06:25	picture of it and appears in my book very featured
06:28	very heavily . Um , and there was one flying
06:31	version of this . They resurrected it and actually I
06:34	kind of know a lot of the stuff because I
06:35	covered it for the BBC a lot . But yeah
06:38	, I've seen it . Yes , they flying for
06:39	a couple of years cost millions of pounds and a
06:41	very , very enthusiastic team of former Vulcan pilots and
06:44	engineers looked after it . Then got to the end
06:47	of that period where it's just too expensive to sustain
06:50	it . It's now being preserved up in the Midlands
06:53	here in the UK . And a team look after
06:55	it . And I got an email from them saying
06:58	one of our team has read your book . I
07:00	wanted to say it's the most authentic experience he had
07:03	read of working on the Vulcan . They loved it
07:05	and they've put in an order for 30 copies .
07:08	That's great in their book shop and online . And
07:11	they've asked if I can do some signed versions they
07:12	can charge them more for . So I'm going to
07:14	do them at cost to support the project , which
07:17	I think it's a good thing for the book to
07:18	do anyway . But interestingly there , here's my question
07:21	for this . The cheapest way I can supply it
07:24	to them is the amazon print copies . The author
07:27	copies . It's Bush about £5.36 something like that .
07:30	Plus postage , which isn't too much an amazon .
07:33	And I think the England spark one is more than
07:35	that . I think I'd have to order quite a
07:37	big number to get it down to 5 36 I
07:39	think if I'm reading that right , is that correct
07:41	that other people's experience ? I mean and if you
07:43	have an experience of this , but it seems an
07:45	odd way of doing it getting amazon author copies .
07:47	I thought that's what England sparklers for . But it
07:48	seems England's more expensive than getting off copies via amazon
07:54	. Yeah , I've never used England , so I'm
07:56	not the person to ask about that . But yeah
07:57	, if I want . So , you know ,
07:59	there's a store in my um my website now for
08:02	readers to get signed copies of the Milton books and
08:05	that's how I get them . I'll just order 20
08:08	at a time . And it is , yeah ,
08:10	it depends on how big the book is , but
08:12	it will it will vary from , you know ,
08:13	depending on the page , size £5 is around about
08:16	the average I suppose . Um And they'll send them
08:18	in a box um and then I'll sign them and
08:21	tell them . But that that is the only other
08:24	way to do it uh ingram aside which I can't
08:26	really comment on it is to do a big offset
08:28	print one . Um And then you get it down
08:31	, you would get it down a lot less than
08:32	£5 . But you you'd have to spend quite a
08:36	lot to , you would be in the high hundreds
08:39	, low thousands to get that price down . So
08:41	not probably not ideal . And what would likely happen
08:45	is you end up with 1000 books in your shed
08:47	. Yes . Um You can shift so and also
08:50	you then find a typo that is also possible .
08:54	Yeah . Yeah . Well we'll certainly going to be
08:57	the case . Yeah . I think the is it's
09:00	not perfect but you know the Orthodox are cheap much
09:03	cheaper . There is enough you can make a margin
09:05	on those . Um Yeah and you can order up
09:07	to 1000 I think on your nine . Is that
09:09	in 1999 ? I think it's in one go .
09:12	But I've never I think the most I've ordered is
09:14	about 100 . Um so I don't think I've done
09:16	any more than that and I'm having lots of these
09:19	author experiences now . I'm going to bore you to
09:21	death . All this stuff you've forgotten happens when the
09:23	first time in office I had an aggressive reader Who
09:27	had got to sort of 75 80 through the book
09:31	and just posted a comment on one of the ads
09:33	. Well that it is disappointing that authors don't research
09:37	things properly and you know , really quite quite aggressive
09:39	tone . And what she discovered is that an R
09:41	. F . Station had closed . That I mentioned
09:43	in a phone call and I got a model of
09:45	a camera wrong by four years . It was and
09:48	she was right about that show . She was wrong
09:50	about the main thing she complained about which as I
09:52	said there were N . C . O . S
09:53	. Flying the Vulcan . They weren't , I didn't
09:55	say that she misunderstood a conversation in the book .
09:58	I think the model of the camera anyway . So
10:00	I responded politely and said oh thank you very much
10:04	and I've amended that and actually I've chosen I chose
10:06	Doctor because my dad was based there but he was
10:08	there he was there six years before and I didn't
10:10	obviously forgot to check that that squadron hadn't moved on
10:14	. But it had . So I checked that and
10:16	then she was incredibly polite and also got towards the
10:18	end of it . And so it's really good and
10:19	I appreciate how much work goes into it . And
10:21	I thought that's such an internet experience , isn't it
10:24	, that somebody's first way of talking to you when
10:26	they're not really talking to you , they're just posting
10:28	two strangers on the internet is to be all kind
10:30	of aggressive and high fluting . And then when they
10:33	realize they're talking to the author who they suddenly are
10:35	appreciative of all the work that you've done and it's
10:39	just a slightly frustrating , but that's fine when you're
10:43	in the public domain a little bit , we know
10:45	this from SPF . That happens . Yeah , I
10:49	saw that this morning . Yes . I don't know
10:50	, like common by sort of posting 20 books ,
10:52	I think you saw as well with someone who posts
10:54	to take one of the courses and had really good
10:56	success . And we , I didn't know they're posting
10:59	. This happens quite a lot of people post their
11:02	experience is not always not always positive . Obviously sometimes
11:04	doesn't work out and they'll post about that . But
11:07	someone , I don't remember the name now , so
11:09	apologies if they're listening , but they had a good
11:11	that they're doing well with the ads course . Um
11:13	, and then one of the first one of the
11:15	first comment was has marked paid you to say this
11:19	. Yes . No , apart , there was completely
11:22	unethical . We would never do that and it wouldn't
11:26	even occur to us to do do something like that
11:28	. It's just an unsolicited positive experience . Um ,
11:33	but yeah , it is , it's frustrating that people
11:36	immediately think the worst , but , you know ,
11:38	on the other hand , I can understand it and
11:40	it's , you know , people have been burned before
11:44	by gammy stuff and , and people do do that
11:47	kind of stuff I guess , but um not us
11:50	. Um and it was it was quite nicely quite
11:53	a lot of people actually would like , they would
11:55	never do this . And and and that is not
11:57	an unusual experience with the courses , which was very
11:59	nice . Well , that was her reason for thinking
12:02	that we had paid them because she quite often sees
12:04	people saying how good marks courses are . So that's
12:07	the reason we must be paying people to go into
12:10	these books . Who could be that the course is
12:13	actually quite good . Well , that's the other ,
12:14	the possibility that hadn't really been considered uh at this
12:18	stage . Anyway , a lot of people weighed in
12:20	and I also pointed out that we do not pay
12:22	anybody to talk to say that our courses are good
12:25	. We obviously pay for advertising in the normal ethical
12:27	way , but we have lots of people who voluntary
12:30	voluntarily getting get house invaded , actually by me .
12:33	And john we turn up with our cameras and they
12:37	in fact , we we end up winners in every
12:39	way because we then drink their coffee , drink their
12:43	all their boots , their doughnuts . And if we
12:45	live , if we live long enough and we stay
12:47	long enough , we drink their booze as well ,
12:48	and then we walk away . We never see them
12:50	again . That's not true . We see lots of
12:52	people again . Yeah , that's the way that goes
12:56	. Problems of success authors out there . It's a
13:01	nice if you're dealing with readers and we do see
13:03	this what I mentioned , you know about an aggressive
13:05	reader and people say , well , how should I
13:07	respond to this ? I think always politely or always
13:10	, always , always enjoy having the moral high ground
13:13	um for that's the right way to do it .
13:15	And just remember that people are engaging with the work
13:18	of art that you've produced if you want to call
13:20	it that and that's a positive thing for you as
13:22	a creator . Even if you know not every not
13:26	everyone's going to like everything as well so that's art
13:29	it's not doing its job is it ? If everyone
13:31	likes it , no no you're never gonna you're never
13:34	gonna please everyone . That's that's completely fine . Now
13:36	you're you're I've seen a couple of I saw another
13:39	common actually someone in one of your heirs who said
13:41	they read halfway through and returned it sorry . Mr
13:44	Black they said but you know that's that's fine .
13:47	These you know I mean that one are you probably
13:49	just delete that comment because you know it's an ad
13:53	that you've paid for ? Yeah so I mean these
13:56	things happen but yeah if you're going to respond ,
13:58	you have to be you've got to be polite because
13:59	you know , the internet is as they say ,
14:02	written in ink . Um so you know , once
14:06	it's out there is out there , so definitely be
14:07	polite and think about try and divorce yourself . That's
14:10	another one of those situations where you're not responding as
14:13	the artist . You're responding as the owner of the
14:15	business that published it . So you you want to
14:17	make sure that your readers , your customers , I
14:21	don't feel like , you know you're a jerk because
14:24	they won't buy from you again and anyone else who's
14:26	that comment also won't buy from you again . Yeah
14:29	, exactly . Um yeah , we mentioned one thing
14:33	we haven't talked about in recent weeks is we have
14:35	not talked about the Apple IOS uh revision , which
14:40	is affecting facebook ads . And the reason for that
14:42	is there's a lot being written about it . There's
14:44	a lot of uncertainty about the practical reality . So
14:46	I think we're gonna let it settle down . If
14:47	there's something to report , we will definitely talk about
14:49	it . I will say there was an odd experience
14:51	. You flagged it up to me yesterday . We
14:53	had what you saw one of my ads in the
14:54	Wild for fuse books without an image , which is
14:58	actually impossible to do . And I checked the ad
15:00	, I had five possible images . It was a
15:01	dynamic creative ad and I sort of wonder if that
15:05	might be to do because it was it was on
15:06	IOS and I could see that the something I hadn't
15:09	realized actually Mark . Is that No , no .
15:12	What ? That wouldn't be the reason . Well ,
15:15	you say that , but what was the reason then
15:20	? I don't I don't know . It's a glitch
15:21	. I don't think it may be connected to the
15:24	, to the changes that have been made because of
15:26	IOS . But IOS is an audience . It's a
15:28	, it's a tracking issue . It's not nothing to
15:30	do with creative , but it is a big new
15:32	release of IOS . But anyway , um the ,
15:36	I hadn't noticed before and it's changed my mind a
15:40	little bit . And what to do about this is
15:41	that the display you are else you put you your
15:43	RL in in this case to an amazon product page
15:47	and then you normally leave the , you display your
15:49	old blank because it pre fills with amazon dot com
15:52	or amazon dot co dot UK . And if you
15:54	fill it in , there's always a chance you put
15:55	amazon dot com when you're in the UK , etcetera
15:57	. So you may as well just leave it .
15:58	But I didn't realize that if it's on an Apple
16:01	device as displayed in that it comes up with something
16:04	weird . I go through to the amazon app .
16:08	Well I don't use the amazon sometimes . Sometimes doesn't
16:11	always . I've seen that a few times . I'd
16:13	rather not have that amazon app . I find it
16:15	a little bit flaky on on my phone . I
16:17	prefer to use it . You should you don't want
16:20	to go to that . They wanted to go straight
16:22	to the website . So the U R L wouldn't
16:23	go there anyway , it should go to the website
16:25	but I'm going to pre fill the display . You're
16:27	all from now on and just say amazon dot co
16:29	dot UK or amazon dot com and make sure that's
16:31	not left for the chance . Right , okay .
16:35	So there is a round up of what's going on
16:38	in the world of us and we have now got
16:41	an interview with Sarah Rosette . Now there is an
16:43	old friend of SPF , she's a little bit of
16:45	work for us here and there . She's a bit
16:47	of an expert on pre order using ingram spark .
16:50	But mainly I really enjoyed talking to about cozy mystery
16:53	. I love a bit of cozy mystery . It's
16:56	a huge honor when you think about it , think
16:57	about the tv programs uh and films that are geared
17:01	around that . We had two opposite knives out last
17:03	year , which I thought was brilliant film . I
17:05	think it's gonna be a secret of that . That
17:07	as well . Agatha Christie one of the great writers
17:09	of Sequels to Sequels . Agatha Christie won the great
17:11	writers of all time of course . And Sherlock Holmes
17:14	probably would fall into that category . I think of
17:17	cozy mystery . Sarah writes modern , contemporary , cozy
17:20	mystery , she's very eloquent about this , this whole
17:23	genre . And yeah , so here is Sarah and
17:26	then Mark and I will be back for a chat
17:29	. This is the self publishing show . There's never
17:32	been a better time to be a writer , Sarah
17:35	Rosette , thank you very much indeed for joining us
17:38	. A friend to SPF . You've done a little
17:40	bit of of our coursework for us in the past
17:43	. You a bit of an ingram spark person .
17:45	So we're gonna talk about that a bit today .
17:48	And I think also series Yes . Love series .
17:53	Love to write a series . Love to read series
17:55	. It's such a key part , isn't it ,
17:57	for becoming commercially successful and as somebody who is on
18:00	the cusp of publishing their first book , look ,
18:04	I even have it . Yes , this is very
18:06	exciting . Thank you very much . I am into
18:09	Book Two and thinking very much about this about the
18:12	series of so , so I'll pick your brains like
18:15	I always use the the interviews mercilessly for my own
18:19	benefit . Okay , so as well , yeah ,
18:22	exactly . Right , let's start off with a bit
18:23	about you . Why don't you tell us your background
18:25	, your writing career so far ? Okay , Well
18:28	, um I've always loved mysteries , always loved reading
18:31	books and just the idea of writing books for a
18:35	living was my dream and but of course I did
18:38	not do that when I went to school , I
18:40	became I went and got a degree in english as
18:43	one does and then I thought that my writing would
18:45	be on the side and I would have a full
18:48	time job , somebody teaching , doing something like that
18:51	. But um I I got married and moved around
18:54	the country . I was a military spouse and I
18:57	was I was riding on this side and I had
19:00	an idea for a cozy mystery , which I don't
19:03	know if you're familiar with the genre . It's very
19:05	, um , I get the Christie like Jessica fletcher
19:09	, so very light mysteries with a puzzle . And
19:14	so I , I came up with an idea for
19:16	that and I pitched it to an agent and got
19:19	an agent . This was back in the traditional published
19:22	days was pretty much the only way to go .
19:24	So I found an agent , she sold it ,
19:27	we got it published and that became my first series
19:30	and it was about a military spouse . She moved
19:32	around the country and I used all the background ,
19:35	you know , like for a cozy you kind of
19:36	need a little hook of something different or unique ,
19:39	a hobby , um , a profession that's interesting that
19:43	people would like to read about and a lot of
19:44	people don't know what it's like to be a military
19:46	family and move around . So I kind of use
19:48	that as background . And then I made my character
19:51	of professional organizers . So she was always in people's
19:54	homes and able to search for clues and stuff .
19:56	So that was my first series and I wrote 10
19:58	books in that series and about 2010 . I started
20:02	having readers asking me when is it coming out in
20:04	the book ? And they were very interested in that
20:06	. And I was completely oblivious and not into it
20:09	at all . And I had no idea what was
20:11	coming with the kindle and all that . And then
20:14	I began to hear about friends who were making good
20:16	money in e books and I was like , oh
20:18	, maybe I should check this out because you know
20:21	, it was this when you consider that was 2010
20:25	2020 10 , 10 ish . So I decided I
20:28	wanted to try it and I tested it with a
20:30	couple of short stories and I was like , okay
20:32	, this is legitimate and it's not that hard ,
20:35	I mean it's a learning curve , but um so
20:38	I I but I didn't have any I p .
20:40	That I owned , so I essentially had to start
20:42	over because all those books that I had written ,
20:45	or , You know , with the publisher and they
20:47	were not interested in giving them up . So ,
20:50	um , I wrote a new series and I launched
20:53	it in 2012 and uh was wide from the beginning
20:57	because my cozy books were wide and I figured ,
21:00	you know , I have readers on all the retailers
21:01	, so that's what I'll do , and that's what
21:03	I did . I've done that series . It was
21:06	not a it was kind of like my book that
21:09	I always wanted to write that no one was very
21:10	interested in . And so I wrote that book ,
21:12	made it into a series and then I thought ,
21:15	you know , if I did just a cozy ,
21:16	like a straight cozy , I might do , you
21:18	know , have better sales . And so I wrote
21:20	a new series about a woman who's a location scout
21:25	and she goes to England to search for locations to
21:27	film and new jane Austen adaptation because that's like all
21:30	the kind of things I'm interested in and allowed me
21:33	to indulge my , you know , country home love
21:36	of english country homes , you know , so in
21:39	that series did better . And so I just continued
21:41	to uh continue to Indy publish and continue to Right
21:47	new series . And my most recent one is historical
21:49	historical 1920 series set in England , which I love
21:53	. Golden Age fiction and that's kind of where that
21:55	one came from . Any statewide Yes . Okay .
21:59	All right well let's let's talk about cozy mystery just
22:01	for a little bit because I'm interested in in um
22:03	these these different genres and the beats and so on
22:07	. And you know you wrote 10 books based on
22:10	the same character the same sort of there's a series
22:12	in the UK called I think it's Agatha raisin which
22:14	is kind of the new sort of . Yeah so
22:17	you get this one character who happens to be at
22:19	the center of a Case that needs solving every week
22:23	on T . V . and you have that with
22:24	your 10 book series when you set out to do
22:27	those stories when you're plotting them or I don't know
22:30	whether you do plot them . You have to hit
22:32	beats at certain points in a cozy mystery free basically
22:34	to qualify as such . Right ? Yeah . And
22:37	I think the most important thing about a cozy is
22:39	the tone . It's got to be light and it's
22:45	more of a puzzle . It's like , can we
22:46	figure out who did it ? So you don't emphasize
22:48	like there is a murder , but you don't emphasize
22:51	the gory nous of it or you don't linger on
22:53	that . But yes , you have to have a
22:55	dead body . Usually it's someone who is not well
22:58	liked . So there's not a lot of angst or
23:01	sorrow over this person being dead . And then of
23:03	course , because they're not well liked , there's lots
23:05	of possibilities of things that people who might not have
23:09	liked them , who might have wanted to do away
23:10	with them . So like you have to kind of
23:12	have the yeah . When some people begin their causes
23:16	with the dead body on page one . I don't
23:18	like to do that . I can like to have
23:20	a little intro kind of set up the world and
23:23	then for me the dead body is usually at the
23:25	end of act one and that's what launches the sleuth
23:28	into the mystery and then you've got your clues and
23:31	red herrings and then you can have like at the
23:36	end you can't have the like perot gathering all the
23:39	suspects together and going through , you could have done
23:42	it , you could have done it . But then
23:44	here's the true answer . You can do that .
23:45	Um I don't know that that's done quite as much
23:48	as it was . It was a big agatha Christie
23:50	thing , wasn't it ? Have the room full at
23:51	the end and I think they played on it recently
23:54	with knives out the film , the comedy film .
23:56	Yeah . So knives out has a ton of cozy
23:59	elements in it . Right ? Yes . Yeah .
24:02	Yeah . It's funny how you can deal with murder
24:03	in one way or another way and the tone is
24:05	I mean this is something Mark john and I did
24:07	in our previous life watching films and giving them film
24:11	certificates . And it was very interesting occasion when the
24:14	director got that tone wrong . A man you know
24:17	aimed at young teens and just got the level of
24:19	war and violence wrong . It's um you really noticed
24:22	it . Okay . Well that's I mean it's a
24:25	great genre . It's a great genre fiction to be
24:29	read by large numbers of people isn't it ? Because
24:31	it's a kind of go to . So the tv
24:33	series are the books I go to books for lots
24:35	of people I imagine quite a competitive . Uh Yeah
24:40	. Yeah I'm in like contemporary , cozy and historical
24:45	mystery has a lot of cozy elements to it .
24:48	So a lot of people feel like it's cozy as
24:50	well . Um There's also paranormal cozies , which cozies
24:54	and that is huge and very competitive . Um I've
24:58	stayed out of that because I don't think I can
25:00	write fast . Yes . Yes , very interesting .
25:04	People are like , I didn't know that existed ,
25:07	you know that yes , kind of yeah , kind
25:13	of light and but there are paranormal elements like somebody
25:17	has like a gift or there's um things going on
25:21	that are otherworldly , you know , and so that's
25:25	very big in k you , there's a lot of
25:28	and so I don't write fast enough to uh do
25:31	those . And my interest is um well I've I
25:35	went back and I looked and I've averaged about for
25:37	my indie books , I've averaged about 2.5 books per
25:40	year . So because uh you know , in some
25:43	some years there have been more , but other years
25:46	there have been less , you know , so it's
25:48	, you know , I aim for three if I
25:50	can get three written , they don't necessarily all come
25:53	out that same year , but if I can get
25:54	three written because I like pre orders , I like
25:56	long pre orders now , so sometimes I'll write one
25:59	, but it won't come out for several months .
26:02	That's interesting . That's a marked awesome technique at the
26:04	minute . We're talking very much about launchers . Um
26:07	, so yeah , the long pre order . Um
26:09	, okay , so you had your relationship with your
26:12	publisher and how our interest , how did that come
26:15	to an end ? Did did you just not ask
26:18	for another contract or where you where you , did
26:20	you have to deliver a couple more books to finish
26:22	that off ? I did , I had to deliver
26:24	several books . And so for a while I was
26:26	technically hybrid , I was writing one for my publisher
26:30	and then I was writing others for myself kind of
26:33	because I wasn't sure how everything would go . So
26:35	I didn't want to totally you know , drop one
26:38	for the other . But I was honestly I was
26:40	making more money indie then I was traditional and that's
26:44	very common if you're mid list author . And so
26:47	I've finished off my books with them and they asked
26:51	if I was interested in doing more books in that
26:53	same series and they want to know if I want
26:54	to start a new series . And I said no
26:56	I'm I'm not giving I didn't say this but you
27:00	know I'm not giving you any more . I p
27:01	because that's I understand how valuable it is now and
27:04	I didn't understand that . And there were no other
27:07	options when I started . So very familiar story ,
27:12	isn't it ? And it makes me sad really that
27:15	all that work and effort you put in and some
27:17	of those traditional contracts and it's it's your thing ,
27:21	but it's not your thing anymore . That's just not
27:23	you're you're basically a worker for a publishing organization and
27:26	they now own those rights presumably in perpetuity . Well
27:30	, there is a clause that I can ask for
27:35	them back at 25 years that so that's a long
27:40	way off . But um , I can ask for
27:42	them back then . I mean , if my sales
27:45	followed this low , a certain threshold during a role
27:47	to period I can get them back . But so
27:49	far they haven't done that and they continue to run
27:52	ads to them occasionally to boost them up , you
27:54	know , so keep them Yeah , but I did
27:57	learn a lot during that and , you know ,
28:00	they helped me get my start . And so when
28:02	I went indie , I did have an audience which
28:04	helped . So , I mean , it wasn't all
28:06	bad and I I , you know , I saw
28:08	how they produce a book and how they , you
28:10	know , and , you know , got ideas for
28:13	marketing , editing and things that that I wasn't that
28:17	they were not interested in doing for me that now
28:19	I can do for myself . I really like ,
28:22	Okay , well , lets talk about series a bit
28:24	then . So you have these these series first of
28:26	all , the 10 that you wrote for the publisher
28:28	, where they also stand alone , a bit like
28:30	Agatha Christie's , you could pick up any one of
28:32	them . Yeah , that's how most of my books
28:34	are . You can the mystery itself is self contained
28:37	in that book . But then if you're interested in
28:40	the lives of the characters throughout the series , you
28:43	probably want to read an order . And that's what
28:44	I tell my readers , if you're interested in ,
28:46	you know , who is you know , dating this
28:50	other person or what's happened to the woman who works
28:54	in the shop downtown , then you probably want to
28:57	read it in order . But the mysteries themselves are
28:58	self contained . And so that way someone can pick
29:02	it up in the middle of the series and read
29:03	like a book seven , I find the most Mr
29:06	readers like to go back to the beginning and read
29:08	from book one on this is the difference between series
29:12	and cereal , Is that right ? I think cereal
29:15	is the one that should be read in order .
29:17	Yes , and if you read it out of order
29:19	, you're just confused . Right ? Yeah . So
29:21	I'm marking one of those robert stories books which are
29:23	definitely cereal , not quite cliffhanger at the end of
29:27	one book , which is a bit of a No
29:28	, no , but close to that , you need
29:30	to read the next book . Does limit your marketing
29:33	in the future . It's a nice epic thing and
29:35	people do like that Lord of the Ring style kind
29:37	of books that that progress this journey , but from
29:40	purely commercial point of view , it is a bit
29:43	more restrictive , isn't it ? Yeah , and I
29:45	think there are different , this is one thing that
29:47	I didn't know when I started writing is that there
29:49	are different types of series and so like what I'm
29:52	writing , I would call a flat arc series ,
29:54	which is like the protagonist doesn't change that much from
29:57	book to book and it's like Perot agatha Christie .
30:01	Um even James bond those books , they're pretty much
30:04	the same , but the characters around the main characters
30:08	, those are the ones that change and by the
30:10	protagonist being in this story , that's what causes the
30:13	change . So it's a very and I didn't realize
30:16	that when I was trying to write my first books
30:18	, I was trying to do the hero's journey and
30:20	I feel like that's more of a robust character arc
30:24	where you've got a beginning and your characters at one
30:26	point and then at the end of the book or
30:28	the end of the series , your character has completely
30:31	changed and it's completely different and I feel like that's
30:33	a different structure . So it would have helped me
30:36	if I had known that when I started writing .
30:38	Yeah , it's funny , we're having this conversation yesterday
30:40	about character journeys and somebody mentioned James Bond said ,
30:44	well , you know , he doesn't he doesn't change
30:45	. I mean I haven't read all the books after
30:47	some , like most people familiar with the films ,
30:49	but there's a good point you make that probably if
30:52	we look back at those bonds stories , it's the
30:54	villain who's on the character journey and it's actually required
30:58	almost for the series . That Bond is on a
31:00	fairly even kill throughout things happen to him fairly passively
31:04	. But it's the villain is the one who is
31:07	the insider who thinks one thing is going to happen
31:09	, who has one motivation and then things fall apart
31:12	for them all , all those things that happen on
31:14	the journey . It's funny , isn't there anything about
31:16	it ? Yeah . And the thing to watch out
31:18	with with a flat art character is the villain may
31:21	become more interesting video protagonist , so you kinda have
31:24	to balance that where they're fascinating but not too fascinating
31:28	, you know , Darth Vader . Yeah . Well
31:31	that , okay , so , so that's interesting that
31:33	you , you then went into indie and well ,
31:35	first of all , let's just see how that went
31:37	for you . That turned into something that was more
31:39	lucrative fairly quickly for you . Mine was more like
31:43	a slow climb . Um So but I was making
31:47	enough money that I was able to put everything back
31:49	into the business and you know , by the time
31:53	I had out to series it was going really well
31:57	. And then when I brought out my third ,
31:58	when the Historical , that one has just done great
32:01	and I think I just hit the market at the
32:03	right time and there's just an interest in that kind
32:08	of golden age , 1920s fiction , which is just
32:11	I hit it at the right point and I went
32:13	into audio books at that time too , and that's
32:16	become a big portion of my income . But yeah
32:19	, I'm doing much better indie than I ever did
32:21	traditionally . And I think part of it is that
32:24	, you know , I have the option that if
32:26	I want to do audio books , I can and
32:28	that was something that my publisher was not interested in
32:31	doing . And if if I want to , you
32:33	know , try some other format or try and get
32:37	a Book Book club ad , I can do that
32:39	um where all that is out of your control when
32:42	you're um indeed , traditionally published . So it's it's
32:47	like all the frustrations we have with a C .
32:50	X . Not being able to control the price and
32:52	not be able to control certain things . That's the
32:55	frustrations when you're traditionally published . But you can also
32:59	say , hey , I don't have to deal with
33:01	that and go on . You know , if you're
33:03	that type of person , I am much more controlling
33:05	, I guess . And what are you doing in
33:07	terms of marketing for your books at the moment ?
33:10	Well , I have some like low level AMS adds
33:13	that . I just keep running all the time .
33:15	I've got some permit free books . Uh , one
33:17	of my series permit free , the other one is
33:19	2 99 is an entry point . I'm thinking of
33:22	dropping that 299 cents or permit free . And then
33:27	I just do ads like I can get it apply
33:30	to book club all the time box sets or another
33:33	thing that I like to do . Um , I
33:36	don't do a whole lot of , I've tried ,
33:37	I've dabbled in facebook ads and I've done okay but
33:40	not great and for the time that it takes ,
33:43	I would almost rather spend that time writing another book
33:46	. I mean , it's like I have a hard
33:49	time . I'm very focused and so if I'm writing
33:52	a book , it's hard for me to stop and
33:53	fiddle with ads and vice versa . So yeah ,
33:56	so I've mostly just worked on creating more content and
34:01	you know , just kind of getting to know my
34:03	readers and growing my email list more than anything else
34:06	, putting some books on the shelf , which is
34:07	such an important part of this . Uh , you're
34:10	still writing or you said you have averaged about 2.5
34:13	books a year . So just before we move off
34:17	series , then , um , let me ask you
34:20	a little bit about your , your plotting now .
34:23	So your historical mystery series . Is that certainly UK
34:25	, is that usa that's that's UK as you love
34:28	the UK , you have to come and live here
34:30	at some point , Sarah , I would love to
34:32	get out of quarantine and lockdown . Getting out of
34:36	it hopefully at some point . But did you ,
34:38	did you end up here in the military ? No
34:42	, I visited there several times . Yeah , we
34:44	, we we were in europe for a couple of
34:48	like short term short term assignments . So , and
34:52	I had a whole another series that grew out of
34:54	that . That's not the one that no one was
34:56	really interested in . It's not quite cozy series based
35:00	in like Italy and France in different places like that
35:03	. Okay , so my question about the series then
35:05	is when you're plotting first of all , do you
35:08	plot out each book in advance or do you can
35:10	see the nodding , do you plot the series out
35:13	at that point as well ? Do you have a
35:15	half a mind about the series ? I in the
35:18	beginning I didn't I had no idea . I just
35:20	knew I was writing a cozy mystery . And cozies
35:23	are always in a series . And so of course
35:25	it was gonna be a series . And I had
35:26	ideas for the mystery elements in each book , you
35:29	know , for a couple of books ahead , but
35:31	I didn't have an idea for the character . So
35:34	now I tend to think about the character as well
35:38	, I'll figure out , okay , I applaud each
35:41	book as I go , but then I also have
35:44	, like now I have an overarching , I tend
35:46	to do it in threes like okay , the historical
35:49	series , the first three books , she's going to
35:51	be figuring out that she's good at this detective thing
35:54	, that she's going to kind of become involved in
35:57	a case , help solve it and go , oh
35:59	perhaps this is something that I could do . And
36:02	so eventually she's going to become like a , you
36:05	know , private detective to the high society , the
36:08	elite people that don't want to really call a private
36:10	detective . So the next three books , you know
36:13	, she's further along in her journey and so I
36:15	have like her kind of entrepreneurial growth and then of
36:19	course I've got romantic subplot , so that's also kind
36:22	of in three arcs . So I tend to think
36:25	in threes because I thought if the first three books
36:28	do well then great , I can keep going .
36:30	If not I can tie it up there and you
36:32	know , go on to another series or something .
36:35	Yeah , that sounds like a really good approach for
36:38	it as well . Like you say that there has
36:39	to be a series element with cozy mysteries . It's
36:43	difficult to think of any famous stand alone versions of
36:47	its just not doesn't lend itself to it . Okay
36:49	, so let's talk a little bit about your writing
36:52	style and then I want to talk a little about
36:53	ingram spark if that's okay . So your writing style
36:57	or your writing process I should say rather than style
36:59	Sarah , how do you go about your day and
37:02	writing ? How do you do well ? Okay ,
37:05	so there's like the ideal what she would love and
37:07	then there's a reality . So like ideally I would
37:10	get up . I do dictation and so I do
37:13	, you know , 2030 minutes of dictation and then
37:15	I used Dragon to transcribe that and then I have
37:19	like this raw , It's really like some people I
37:23	think they're dictation comes out much better than mine .
37:25	Mine is like a mess and I have to go
37:26	in and clean it up , but it helps me
37:28	because it gets my thoughts and ideas and everything out
37:31	of my head onto the page and then it's easier
37:33	for me to move things around and edit and clean
37:36	it up because I don't like a blank page .
37:39	And so that's why I feel like I have to
37:41	know where I'm going with the story . That's why
37:42	I kind of rough out a plot because I don't
37:45	like not knowing what's going to happen , I feel
37:48	better if I know what's happening and it's easier for
37:50	me to like edit and do things if I have
37:54	it on the page . So I work on that
37:56	and usually what I do is I work on fiction
38:01	for like a couple of months and then I'll add
38:03	in , you know , admin and marketing and kind
38:06	of small , that's a smaller part of my day
38:08	during that time . And then when I get done
38:10	with a book , like I just turned in a
38:12	book to my editor . So now I'm doing like
38:14	lots of big projects that I've had on the back
38:17	burner because I have a hard time like switching during
38:20	the day , I've tried that where I work in
38:22	the morning and market in the afternoon . I'm just
38:24	not good at it . So , so that's kind
38:26	of how I do it . And I'm usually a
38:29	couple hours of creative thinking time and you know ,
38:32	I'm kind of brain dead , so I'll take a
38:34	break and try and work out in the afternoon and
38:38	then sometimes I'll come back and do , you know
38:40	, email and stuff like that . That has to
38:41	be done . But yeah , I tend to kind
38:43	of go in phases and that dictation . Is that
38:48	purely for the reason you just stated , which is
38:50	to get the ideas out and onto the page or
38:52	do , is it for physical reasons why you just
38:54	don't like the idea of typing all day ? Well
38:57	, I originally started trying it because I thought it
38:59	would be to make it faster for me and I
39:01	don't know if it's actually made me faster . It's
39:04	just , I do like it because it does save
39:07	wear and tear on your hands and back , you
39:09	know , sitting and then I strained to you're not
39:13	staring at the computer . But the other thing I've
39:15	discovered is that if I start with dictation , like
39:18	I pick up , I have a little handheld recorder
39:21	And I'll make a jot down some notes on what
39:24	I'm going to talk about that day and then I'll
39:27	record and it keeps me off my computer first thing
39:30	. So like I don't open my computer and I
39:32	don't go into email . So it is good .
39:35	It helps me get the words down or the really
39:37	rough ones that need a lot of work and you're
39:40	20 or 30 minutes . How many words does that
39:42	produce ? Well if I'm going quickly and I know
39:46	what I'm saying and I'm speaking quickly probably about 2
39:48	3000 words . Sometimes it's sometimes it's very halting though
39:52	, you know , sentence period and then there's like
39:55	a long , so it can be lower than that
39:57	definitely lower . I keep thinking about dictation and I've
40:01	tried a couple of times and I know everyone says
40:04	if you're gonna do it you've got to stick at
40:05	it and make it work . But I can't personally
40:08	can't get past that . I type and the logic
40:12	and the flow comes to me when I'm dictating .
40:14	It doesn't it's hard , it's very , very difficult
40:19	and it was really hard for me to get over
40:20	it . And I felt really weird speaking my words
40:24	and I thought this is so strange because I'm going
40:26	to put these down in the book and send it
40:28	out in the world and people are going to read
40:29	it so it shouldn't matter if I say it aloud
40:32	, you know ? But I had I kept at
40:34	it and I think the reason I did was I
40:38	I had I just bought a new keyboard and it's
40:42	a one that's like I'm not sure it's kinesis .
40:45	So it's like the kind that um it's scooped out
40:48	supposed to be better for your the keyboards that kind
40:51	of concave and so I but there were two keys
40:55	that were in a slightly different place and it took
40:57	me about three or four weeks to get used to
41:00	that . And it was driving me insane and I
41:02	thought but I did get used to it and I
41:04	thought okay , I can get used to a new
41:06	keyboard . I will just keep going with this dictation
41:10	and eventually it should feel better . I don't know
41:12	that ever feels natural to me . But But now
41:16	there are times that I do think I'll be typing
41:19	something like only I can just dictate this . It
41:21	would be so much faster . Yeah . Well ,
41:23	I have to say the idea of 2 , 3000
41:25	words in Into 30 minutes . But then there's a
41:28	lot of then you go through it all . Yeah
41:31	, actually it's probably but nonetheless , yeah , maybe
41:34	I'll revisit at some point , drafting is coming up
41:37	for book too . So um okay , let's talk
41:39	about England spark . I know this is a service
41:41	that you use and you've done a little bit of
41:42	work for us and SPF on this front . I'm
41:45	really interested in it because I will probably go exclusive
41:48	with my book . But the print version um there's
41:52	no reason not to have that wide everywhere . And
41:56	I know , first of all , you had an
41:58	idea about England spark being used during the preorder period
42:01	, even on amazon . Yes . Yes . Yes
42:03	. And that's turned out to be a great thing
42:05	for me . I didn't realize you could do that
42:07	because um KDP print won't let you do pre orders
42:11	. Print preorders . So and I had readers emailing
42:15	me , so I'm doing these long pre orders and
42:17	I had mr readers like print and I had them
42:19	emailing saying where can I preorder the print copy ?
42:21	And I was like , so I searched it out
42:24	and you can do a print provider through ingram and
42:27	it needs you do need a lot of lead time
42:29	because they start printing The books to ship them 4-6
42:33	weeks before your release date . So unless you're longer
42:36	than that , it's probably not a good idea .
42:39	But if you have a pre order of 2-3 months
42:42	, you can set up your book just like ,
42:44	you would like , you're going to release it through
42:46	ingram , but you put the on sale date in
42:50	the future , you know , you release date and
42:52	then what I do is I upload the file that
42:55	I get back from my proof reader . So whenever
42:57	I have that I up or actually I upload the
43:00	one I get back from the copy editor , so
43:02	I know that there's still a proof read to go
43:04	and I just make sure that I go in and
43:06	change that file out because you have to upload a
43:09	file has to be here . Yeah , so it's
43:13	very easy and once you get it going it flows
43:15	through to amazon and to Barnes and Noble and Waterstones
43:20	and all the different places they distribute and then people
43:22	can preorder it . Yeah . Yeah , great .
43:25	Can you use the same , if you , if
43:27	you bought your SPN , presumably you can use the
43:29	same sPN that use on amazon . Yes , so
43:32	that's actually easiest . Yeah , we're doing it .
43:35	Um and if you've got your ISBN from amazon ,
43:38	this is getting very techy now . But if you
43:39	tick the box to say I'll have your ESPN when
43:42	you're doing your print on demand version on amazon that
43:45	you can't use that elsewhere . I don't think can
43:47	you know , you can't use that . But ingram
43:49	now also has that where you can use one of
43:51	their ESPN's so you don't you don't really need an
43:55	spN . But I've I have I bought you know
43:58	you can buy them in groups of like 100 or
44:01	so . I have a big group that I bought
44:03	and so that's what I use because then I can
44:05	use the same one both places . Yeah . And
44:10	in terms of your distribution wider , why should you
44:13	use ingram spark not use a service like draft the
44:17	digital published drive and go through them . With Prince
44:21	. I haven't personally used drafted digital's print option .
44:26	So I don't know like what its advantages are or
44:30	disadvantages and it would be nice to have everything consolidated
44:33	and drafted digital if you're already using them , that
44:35	might be a good thing to do for me .
44:37	I knew when I started doing print , I I
44:41	looked at the sales , I was getting through KDP
44:43	print and I saw that I was getting a lot
44:45	of sales that were like 23 cents or 42 cents
44:48	and that's the expanded distribution because um KDP print basically
44:54	they're doing what ingram would do . So they're taking
44:56	a cut every time you sell . Like if you
44:59	sell a print book on Barnes and noble through KDP
45:01	print Amazon is taking their cut of the distribution .
45:06	So I thought that's really not a lot . And
45:09	let me see if I can explore this single spark
45:12	thing because Joanna Pen was talking about it . So
45:15	I looked into it and I realized I it's not
45:17	a lot but I can make around $2 for each
45:21	print copy I sell through Barnes and Noble Waterstones .
45:24	So basically I use KDP print for the amazon stores
45:27	and then I using the spark for Barnes and Noble
45:31	and Book stores and e book stores , you know
45:34	everyone else basically . Yeah . Yeah . Okay ,
45:37	that's really interesting and I think I might well go
45:39	down that route if nothing else just so I can
45:41	explore England Spark and use that . I am interested
45:43	in the company of services and I know they've been
45:46	improving a lot in recent years . Um So yeah
45:49	, that's for me to dig into . Yeah ,
45:52	it's different from amazon and that it's a wholesale model
45:55	, so you're you have to set a discount and
45:58	we went into all that in the course like different
46:00	options you have and you don't have to set hi
46:04	discount , you can set a low discount and as
46:06	long as your books are in their bookstores can order
46:09	them . And that's another thing that a lot of
46:11	bookstores don't want to order your stock from amazon or
46:15	they won't . A lot of libraries can't because they're
46:19	set up to order through like ingram or someone else
46:21	. So you have more ability to have your book
46:24	in more places if you're in ingram but then you
46:27	have to figure out your discount and that kind of
46:29	puts people off but this is a discount to wholesalers
46:35	. So somebody like who's going to retail your book
46:38	as opposed to um it being sort of their for
46:41	purchase by kobo or whatever . Right ? Yeah ,
46:45	so it's a completely different model and we're not used
46:47	to that because almost everyone else we deal with ,
46:49	we just put in our price and the person ,
46:54	the company that's distributing takes their cut and then they
46:57	give us the rest . And so this isn't that
46:58	same model , the bookstores get a discount and then
47:02	they make their money between the discount in the price
47:06	they said , so , you know , if you
47:08	have a really tiny discount , it's not worth it
47:11	to them because they're going I can't make any money
47:13	off this , you know , So so there's some
47:16	issues there that are unusual for indie authors , but
47:21	I've found it to be worth it . And and
47:23	I think it varies according to genre because I know
47:25	mystery readers love print books and other genres may not
47:30	be as into buying print . So I would say
47:33	check your KDP print sales and if you have a
47:35	lot going through expanded distribution , then it's probably worth
47:38	looking into . Yeah , okay . And final sort
47:42	of nerdy question on this front is pricing you set
47:45	a price for your KdP print on demand book .
47:49	Do you have to match that in England Spark ?
47:51	Are the dangers from deviating from that ? It's not
47:55	like candy pee , where I know people who have
47:58	a higher um , ingram sparked price , but I
48:01	don't tend to do that because it's just too confusing
48:03	for me . I'd rather have all my price is
48:05	the same across all retailers . And in that way
48:07	it doesn't seem unfair if somebody's a Barnes , noble
48:11	shop or whatever , but I don't think there's anything
48:16	technically about that , but it would require deeper research
48:21	because I do know that when you sign up and
48:24	agree to the terms of service , a lot of
48:26	the retailers , you're agreeing not to put your book
48:29	at a lower price anywhere else . So you'd have
48:31	to dig in and find out if that applies to
48:33	the print as well . Okay . That's something that
48:37	I'm I don't know . Yes , I guess could
48:40	be complicated and buried in the terms . And what
48:43	price do you set your paperbacks at interest ? Well
48:47	, right now , I'm doing 1399 for my trade
48:50	paperbacks . Um , I started out at 1199 because
48:54	I wanted to be , you know , I wanted
48:56	to look like a good deal , but what I
48:58	didn't realize was that it's better to go a little
49:00	bit higher than lower because Amazon a lot of times
49:04	will discount your paperback price and you're paid off the
49:07	higher price off your list price . So , I
49:11	was kind of hurting myself by going 1199 . So
49:14	, um so now I do 1399 on my trade
49:16	paperbacks . I've experimented with a hardcover through ingram spark
49:21	and that is 26-99 which seems really high . But
49:24	that's kind of in line with traditionally published hardbacks .
49:28	And then I have a case laminate hardback , large
49:32	print . That's that's the kind with the the cover
49:35	is glued to the uh backings and libraries in the
49:40	U . S . Love those . That's why I
49:42	did that . And I press that . Yes ,
49:45	last forever . So in that one I priced at
49:47	29-99 , which to me is really high . But
49:51	the libraries if they're running through ingram , they're getting
49:53	that discount and that's the price that most large print
49:59	are kind of in that range in my genre .
50:01	So is there a lot to do in terms of
50:03	the cover specifications and the formatting of this ? Uh
50:08	Some people I know have used the same cover that
50:10	they've uploaded to KDP print . I've never been able
50:13	to do that . And if you do your own
50:15	covers and can , like , if you're good at
50:17	Photoshop , I think you can make , there's like
50:18	minor adjustments , but I just tell my cover artist
50:22	I'm gonna need a cover for KDP print in a
50:23	cover for a spark . Okay . And they just
50:26	, they're basically the same , but there's just like
50:28	tiny little variations on each one . Okay . Okay
50:32	. Good . Well , it's fascinating area . There's
50:35	a lot of , there's a lot to this game
50:37	and you're a specialist in , in small areas like
50:41	, which is a really useful thing . Uh It's
50:44	good for my genre . So that's what I've looked
50:47	into it . Yeah . Yeah . And if you're
50:49	, it's the wallet one course , isn't , I
50:50	? Think your module on ingram spark . Yeah ,
50:53	it's in I think the vault in the vote the
50:56	tech library , Tech library . Yes . The vault
50:58	something else . But in the tech library , if
51:00	you're one on one student , you can hear Sarah's
51:03	voice . In fact , I think when does this
51:05	now ? I think one of them will be closed
51:06	over time . This goes down . But the next
51:08	time those people good . Well Sarah , thank you
51:11	very much indeed for coming on . Fount of knowledge
51:17	. Well done for your success , which is brilliant
51:19	. I'm sure we're gonna work together again in the
51:21	future and maybe even who knows ? So we might
51:23	even be in the same room at the same time
51:25	again as we have been in the past conferences .
51:28	We are so looking forward to that . All the
51:31	writers want to get back to the conferences . Can't
51:34	wait . We've got our flight , but but we're
51:36	still having to cross fingers aren't we because we don't
51:38	really know what's going to happen . But books which
51:41	is the most we can do . Sarah thank you
51:44	so much indeed . Good luck . And hopefully we'll
51:46	see you again soon . Yeah , it sounds great
51:48	. Thanks for having me . This is the self
51:53	publishing show . There's never been a better time to
51:55	be a writer . Love Sarah soft voice . She
51:59	could talk to me all day like Sarah and your
52:01	earmark . Uh huh . I'm not gonna gambled in
52:06	in that nonsense . But yes it's a interesting into
52:10	and it's definitely one of the bigger genres and you
52:13	see quite a few authors doing really well in cozy
52:16	and variants of cozy which he cozies is another food
52:20	quite popular genre . Food cozies , food causes ,
52:23	Yeah , exactly . There's lots of cool but it's
52:25	always a chef isn't it , to do with Food
52:27	and A Murder in the kitchen . Um Yes it's
52:29	you can see why it's a good genre , a
52:32	big genre . It's very attractive and easy reading and
52:35	um and the T . V . Programs in ,
52:37	my wife watches agatha raisin . I don't know that's
52:39	made it over to the United States but it's a
52:43	classic cozy mystery . What's the village where a murder
52:46	happens every week . They had some er some mid
52:49	mid summer murders , murders . Yeah huge . That
52:51	must have made it to America . Um Yeah so
52:55	. Oh yeah Greg craig martell is obsessed with midsummer
52:58	. You never understood that ? I think people do
53:01	you think that that is what living in England is
53:03	like dangerous and of course they're they're right it is
53:06	a very dangerous place . As the villages mean streets
53:09	of Salisbury . Yeah . Good . Okay well I
53:13	love to having that chat with Sarah thank you very
53:14	much indeed to her for being my guest Now .
53:17	I have an episode coming up in the near future
53:19	. I've interviewed both the editors I work with in
53:21	my book . So we're trying to that a couple
53:23	of weeks but had a very interesting exchange with jenny
53:25	nash , which is going to involve you , me
53:28	jenny and another person in Vegas in our shorts and
53:31	t shirt to play something called pickleball . Mm okay
53:36	, I'll pass . No , no , you're ,
53:37	you're not passing your , you're my partner because the
53:40	reason is it's being taken up by people around our
53:43	age in big numbers in America is a big growth
53:45	sport and it's particularly around our yes , our age
53:49	and it's particularly for people who used to play tennis
53:52	or table tennis , um , and which used to
53:56	be on the edge of the England squad . Did
53:57	you not ? You once told me I did for
54:00	table tennis , jenny was quite a handy tennis player
54:03	. Have to let you know . So you need
54:05	to practice only . They have applicable stadium in the
54:08	valleys hotel . So we're on christ you better start
54:14	watching some youtube videos . I will , yes .
54:17	Okay , look , that's it . I've got some
54:19	gulf to go to . We've got some hello books
54:21	emails to send out . We'll update you on all
54:23	of these projects from time to time as they go
54:25	on and I think that's probably it . Mark .
54:30	All right , that's a good bye for me and
54:32	a good buy from him . Goodbye goodbye . Get
54:37	show notes . The podcast archive and free resources to
54:41	boost your writing career at self publishing show dot com
54:45	, join our thriving facebook group at self publishing show
54:49	dot com forward slash facebook support the show at patreon
54:53	dot com forward slash self publishing show and join us
54:57	next week for more help and inspiration so that you
55:00	can make your mark as a successful in the author
55:04	. Publishing is changing to get your words into the
55:07	world and join the revolution with the self publishing show
00:0-1	.

Summarizer

DESCRIPTION:

Sara Rosett has moved from being a traditionally published author, through hybrid, to now being an indie author. She and James explore the cozy mystery genre, how writing a character arc in a series is different than a stand-alone book, and how IngramSpark can bridge some pre-order gaps that Amazon doesnât fill.

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Ingram Spark vs KDP Print: The Great Debate (The Self Publishing Show, episode 278) is a free educational video by Self Publishing Formula.

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